Misinformation Elimination Squad, Case #2
I don't want beef with ChatGPT. But it was really wrong.
Bryce Harper, who remains on the Injured List with right wrist inflammation, will miss out on hitting his 30th ledger against the Astros this week. Harper and his Astros ledger were a source of BIG CONTROVERSY last year, which you can read all about in the first case handled by the Misinformation Elimination Squad:
But I’m not here to rehash. I’m here to take aim at another source of misinformation out there in baseball stats land: ChatGPT. More specifically, how ChatGPT got something very specific, very wrong. And it’s not about ledgers or even home runs!
Here’s what started this dust-up. Late last week (June 19), the Cardinals played a double-header against the White Sox. When looking over the scores that night, I saw two victories by the Cardinals with something else catching my eye.
Andre Granillo had won the first game by virtue of coaxing a fly ball off the bat of Lenyn Sosa to end the seventh inning. But it came after a wild pitched advanced inherited runner Kyle Teel and a stolen base got other inherited runner Luis Robert to second. Phil Maton got the Sox to go 1-2-3 in the eighth, and usual closer Ryan Helsley shut them down in the ninth.
A mostly rested Andre Granillo earned the save by pitching a mostly clean tenth inning after the Cardinals took the lead to start in extras. Both the win and the save were the first of Granillo’s major league career.
“Surely,” I said to myself, “this couldn’t be a common occurrence.” And I wasn’t even really thinking about it in the context of being Granillo’s first of both. Just, in general, it probably wasn’t too common for a pitcher to earn both a win and a save on the same day.
So I went to ChatGPT.
OK! We’re off to a pretty good start. If you’re not familiar with how pitching decisions work and how saves are determined, this gets you in at the highest level. A pitcher can’t win and save the same game. It has to be a double-header. Great!
Then things went down hill quickly as ChatGPT gave me a notable example.
Sounds good to me! But this feels like a trust, but verify situation…
Uh oh! Trust has been lost! ChatGPT claims that Fernando Nieve earned both a win and a save on June 7, 2009. Fernando Nieve didn’t pitch at all on June 7, 2009, and furthermore, Fernando Nieve ended his career with zero saves.
Alright, now I need to proceed with extreme caution.
All the goodwill that ChatGPT generated right off the bat is now down the drain. “Typically during doubleheaders.” But you just said that it had to be a doubleheader (actually, you’ll learn what they might mean coming up). And “usually in different games?” No! Always in different games. What are we doing here?!
But let’s continue.
Are we making progress? Looks like it at first glance. Bob Groom does indeed have what should be the most famous instance of a “save” and win in the same day and His story is very good, so please go read his SABR bio when you have a chance.
But Groom is also experiencing some retroactive history building. Saves did not become an official statistic until 1969 and had only been developed that decade.
Robertson and Colomé also present interesting cases. Yes, both earned a win and save in the same calendar day, but did so through the resumption of a suspended game, not in an actual double header. So they count in a certain way, but we run into an issue.
Official stats are always attached to the date on which a game began, so if we use a resource like Baseball Reference, it’s impossible to immediately tell which games were suspended and when they were concluded. And this means that neither we nor ChatGPT would be able to deduce how many more of these instances there are unless there was pre-existing knowledge out there (that’s how ChatGPT was able to identify the Robertson and Colomé days - someone answered someone else in a Stack Overflow thread which ChatGPT cited).
Right now, it looks as if our hypothesis may be true1 — there are very few instances of a pitcher earning a win and a save on the same day. But let’s press ChatGPT once more.
Well… we might have problems. ChatGPT only knows about Groom, Robertson, and Colomé, but it’s confusing itself about the games all being tied to double-headers. If we took ChatGPT at face value and accepted that, yes, it truly is rare for this to happen, we would be EGREGIOUSLY mistaken.
Next, I did what needed to be done. I went to Stathead to bulldoze through pages and pages of games. Stathead could offer the Span Finder, wherein I asked it to give me instances where over the course of two games a pitcher earned one win and one save. I started off in 1969 — the year saves became official.
A bunch of results came back but they all seemed to be of the variety of a pitcher winning or saving a game, then in the next game where he pitched, he did the other one. Stathead bases this on consecutive games played, not consecutive days. I scrolled down the page.
In my heart, I knew what we would find. And it didn’t take long to find it.
ChatGPT claimed it had complete results. False. There’s at least one it didn’t know about. Then, they kept coming. More and more results scrolled past my eyes. Because I am a completionist, I took a look at all years up through Andre Granillo’s performance. By my count, a pitcher earned a win and save in the same day in a double-header sixty (60) times since 1969. Sixty is a complete (I hope) list.
And because I am really a completionist, I also checked on the players who earned a win and save on the same day when a suspended game was resumed. In addition to Robertson and Colomé, I found two more pitchers:
Eduardo Rodríguez won the game suspended on May 14, 1975, and resumed on May 15, then saved the regularly scheduled May 15 game (Rangers defeating the Brewers)
Lee Smith saved the game suspended on July 1, 1986, and resumed on July 2, then won the regularly scheduled July 2 game (Cubs defeating the Expos)
David Robertson won the game suspended on April 24, 2015, and resumed on April 26, then saved the regularly scheduled April 26 game (White Sox defeating Royals)2
Alex Colomé won the game suspended on May 27, 2019, and resumed on May 28, then saved the regularly scheduled May 28 game (White Sox defeating Royals)
So even if ChatGPT looked at suspended games, their list still wasn’t complete.
This article is not really meant as a criticism of ChatGPT or any other AI resource. I’ll stick with the mantra trust a little but verify a lot. In this case, had all my trust been put into the technology, I wouldn’t have the complete picture.
Turns out that Andre Granillo was indeed the first pitcher to earn his first win and first save on the same day. Only one other player managed half the equation. Victor Cruz earned his second career save and first career win on the same day on June, 27, 1978. Granillo was also the first pitcher in more than a decade to accomplish the feat.
And because I did the work and this information doesn't seem to be anywhere else on the internet, I give you the list of the sixty occurrences of a pitcher earning a win and a save on the same calendar day in a double-header using Baseball Reference’s decision coding along with the number of batters they faced (BF). Enjoy!
Joe Gibbon - July, 9, 1969 - Pirates vs Expos | G1: 8-GF(10), W, 10 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 10 BF
Wayne Granger - September, 8, 1969 - Reds vs Giants | G1: 9-GF, S, 2 BF | G2: 8-GF(15), W, 2 BF
Danny Murphy - September, 14, 1969 - White Sox vs Athletics | G1: 6-GF, S, 15 BF | G2: 9-GF, W, 15 BF
Tom Timmermann - June, 21, 1970 - Tigers at Indians | G1: 8-GF, S, 8 BF | G2: 10-GF(12), W, 8 BF
Dave Giusti - June, 28, 1970 - Pirates vs Cubs | G1: 8-9, W, 7 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 7 BF
Don McMahon - June, 28, 1970 - Giants vs Braves | G1: 9-GF(10), W, 7 BF | G2: 8-GF, S, 7 BF
Ted Abernathy - July, 3, 1970 - Royals at Brewers | G1: 9-GF(10), W, 7 BF | G2: 8-GF, S, 7 BF
Wayne Granger - July, 20, 1970 - Reds at Cardinals | G1: 9-GF, S, 4 BF | G2: 9-GF(10), W, 4 BF
Jim Brewer - June, 26, 1971 - Dodgers vs Padres | G1: 9-GF, S, 4 BF | G2: 12-GF(13), W, 4 BF
Tom Burgmeier - September, 6, 1971 - Royals vs Brewers | G1: 9-GF, S, 1 BF | G2: 6-GF, W, 1 BF
Bob Johnson - June, 7, 1972 - Pirates at Padres | G1: 4-GF, W, 20 BF | G2: 18-GF(18), S, 20 BF
Dave Giusti - July, 16, 1972 - Pirates vs Astros | G1: 9-GF(10), W, 7 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 7 BF
Sparky Lyle - August, 6, 1972 - Yankees at Brewers | G1: 9-GF, S, 4 BF | G2: 9-GF(10), W, 4 BF
Ken Sanders - September, 12, 1972 - Brewers vs Indians | G1: 9-GF, S, 3 BF | G2: 8-GF(8), W, 3 BF
Sparky Lyle - July, 17, 1973 - Yankees vs Twins | G1: 11-GF(12), W, 8 BF | G2: 8-GF, S, 8 BF
Ray Corbin - July, 26, 1973 - Twins vs Athletics | G1: 9-GF, S, 1 BF | G2: 10-GF(10), W, 1 BF
Clay Carroll - July, 31, 1973 - Reds at Braves | G1: 9-GF, S, 2 BF | G2: 7-8, W, 2 BF
Ken Sanders - August, 19, 1973 - Indians vs Twins | G1: 8-GF, S, 4 BF | G2: 8-GF, W, 4 BF
Eduardo Rodríguez - August, 31, 1973 - Brewers vs Red Sox | G1: 9-GF, S, 2 BF | G2: 12-GF(13), W, 2 BF
Tug McGraw - September, 7, 1973 - Mets at Expos | G1: 9-GF, S, 1 BF | G2: 10-15, W, 1 BF
Tug McGraw - May, 15, 1975 - Phillies vs Reds | G1: 8-GF, W, 8 BF | G2: 8-GF, S, 8 BF
Tug McGraw - June, 29, 1975 - Phillies at Mets | G1: 7-GF, S, 9 BF | G2: 9-GF(12), W, 9 BF
Dyar Miller - July, 27, 1975 - Orioles at Brewers | G1: 7-GF, S, 8 BF | G2: 7-10, W, 8 BF
Jim Todd - August, 23, 1975 - Athletics at Brewers | G1: 6-6, W, 1 BF | G2: 6-GF, S, 1 BF
Clay Carroll - May, 23, 1976 - White Sox vs Athletics | G1: 7-GF, BW, 10 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 10 BF
Jim Kern - May, 23, 1976 - Indians vs Brewers | G1: 9-GF, S, 3 BF | G2: 4-GF, W, 3 BF
Dave Heaverlo - June, 23, 1976 - Giants vs Padres | G1: 5-6, W, 5 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 5 BF
Charlie Hough - August, 1, 1976 - Dodgers at Giants | G1: 9-GF, S, 3 BF | G2: 9-GF(10), W, 3 BF
Rick Camp - June, 3, 1977 - Braves vs Giants | G1: 9-GF, S, 3 BF | G2: 9-GF, W, 3 BF
Rollie Fingers - July, 10, 1977 - Padres at Dodgers | G1: 8-GF, W, 8 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 8 BF
Tom Johnson - July, 24, 1977 - Twins vs Athletics | G1: 9-GF, S, 1 BF | G2: 10-GF(12), W, 1 BF
Jim Kern - September, 5, 1977 - Indians vs Yankees | G1: 8-GF, S, 8 BF | G2: 8-8, BW, 8 BF
Mike Marshall - June, 25, 1978 - Twins at White Sox | G1: 6-GF, W, 17 BF | G2: 8-GF, S, 17 BF
Víctor Cruz - June, 27, 1978 - Blue Jays vs Orioles | G1: 7-GF, S, 10 BF | G2: 8-GF, W, 10 BF
Rich Gossage - July, 2, 1978 - Yankees vs Tigers | G1: 9-GF, S, 3 BF | G2: 9-GF, BW, 3 BF
Tom Griffin - May, 19, 1979 - Giants at Braves | G1: 6-9, W, 10 BF | G2: 11-GF(11), S, 10 BF
Sid Monge - July, 31, 1979 - Indians vs Red Sox | G1: 10-GF(11), W, 5 BF | G2: 8-GF, S, 5 BF
Joe Sambito - August, 4, 1979 - Astros vs Braves | G1: 8-GF, W, 4 BF | G2: 8-GF, S, 4 BF
Kent Tekulve - August, 5, 1979 - Pirates vs Phillies | G1: 9-GF, W, 4 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 4 BF
Dan Quisenberry - August, 10, 1979 - Royals vs Tigers | G1: 9-GF, BW, 5 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 5 BF
Gene Garber - June, 18, 1980 - Braves vs Pirates | G1: 9-GF, W, 3 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 3 BF
Neil Allen - June, 28, 1980 - Mets at Phillies | G1: 10-GF(11), W, 8 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 8 BF
Jesse Orosco - July, 27, 1985 - Mets vs Astros | G1: 8-GF, W, 8 BF | G2: 8-GF, S, 8 BF
Dave Schmidt - September, 30, 1986 - White Sox vs Mariners | G1: 10-GF(10), W, 3 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 3 BF
Scott Garrelts - July, 31, 1988 - Giants vs Braves | G1: 8-GF, S, 6 BF | G2: 10-GF(10), W, 6 BF
Roger McDowell - August, 14, 1988 - Mets vs Expos | G1: 8-GF, W, 6 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 6 BF
Gregg Olson - June, 23, 1991 - Orioles at Royals | G1: 10-GF(10), S, 3 BF | G2: 9-11, BW, 3 BF
Steve Farr - September, 22, 1992 - Yankees vs Tigers | G1: 12-GF(12), W, 1 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 1 BF
John Franco - July, 30, 1996 - Mets vs Pirates | G1: 9-GF, S, 3 BF | G2: 12-GF(12), W, 3 BF
Ugueth Urbina - August, 13, 1999 - Expos at Rockies | G1: 8-9, BW, 8 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 8 BF
Bob Howry - August, 21, 1999 - White Sox at Orioles | G1: 9-GF, S, 3 BF | G2: 9-9, BW, 3 BF
Shigetoshi Hasegawa - September, 14, 1999 - Angels at Royals | G1: 9-GF, S, 4 BF | G2: 8-8, BW, 4 BF
Jorge Julio - August, 3, 2004 - Orioles vs Mariners | G1: 9-GF, S, 4 BF | G2: 8-GF, W, 4 BF
Mike MacDougal - September, 20, 2005 - Royals vs Tigers | G1: 9-GF, W, 3 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 3 BF
Chad Cordero - September, 2, 2006 - Nationals at Rockies | G1: 10-GF(11), W, 6 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 6 BF
Kevin Gregg - May, 25, 2008 - Marlins vs Giants | G1: 9-GF, S, 4 BF | G2: 9-GF, W, 4 BF
C.J. Wilson - May, 29, 2009 - Rangers vs Athletics | G1: 8-8, W, 3 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 3 BF
Jonathan Papelbon - September, 9, 2012 - Phillies vs Rockies | G1: 9-GF, W, 4 BF | G2: 9-GF, S, 4 BF
Tommy Hunter - May, 1, 2014 - Orioles vs Pirates | G1: 9-GF, S, 1 BF | G2: 10-GF(10), W, 1 BF
Andre Granillo - June, 19, 2025 - Cardinals at White Sox | G1: 7-7, W, 1 BF | G2: 10-GF(10), S, 1 BF
At this point, and in a bit of foreshadowing, I must admit that my wheelhouse is ledger home runs. I have a complete blind spot for most relievers, especially those that played in the 70s and 80s. It might be readily obvious to someone who does have this niche knowledge that of course there have been many instances of save/win/same day.
ChatGPT and/or the original source also seemed to get this wrong. David Robertson did not factor into any decisions for a game played on April 25. Also, I’m guessing a fan of the White Sox or Royals provided the Stack Overflow data.